I am going to build a new DP as the ATP is superb but I cannot fit the giant cat into the middle of it as planned.
I ended up with enough parts that I am probably going to build one more exhaust and sell it as well as the new ATP DP.
Let the fun begin, DP and exhaust build:)
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I am going to build a new DP as the ATP is superb but I cannot fit the giant cat into the middle of it as planned.
I ended up with enough parts that I am probably going to build one more exhaust and sell it as well as the new ATP DP.
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I am close to having the DP done, tack welded at least, fitting in a 5" diameter 100 cell cat has been interesting, I will have to make a heat shield at least part way around it. It is a long cat making the flex pipe further down and I have to put an angle between the cat and it or the mid pipe will be to low. I would not mind the mid pipe as low as I could make it, lower center of gravity that way, but I might need to put a resonator in after testing, going without for now to save weight.
I splurged on the muffler, it is a race version with SS packing, they last far longer than other mufflers and it has a better flow through than most I have seen but it was a bit spendy.
I splurged on the muffler, it is a race version with SS packing, they last far longer than other mufflers and it has a better flow through than most I have seen but it was a bit spendy.
DP is nearly done, spending many hours getting it aligned just how I want it for the following exhaust to aim so I can eliminate as many bends and lessen the ones it has to have.
Porting every step of the way to ensure the cleanest flow possible, every bend a true bend and not cheated, flared out the bend out of the cat as the hole was bigger than the pipe, it would of been weldable but left a major step causing a loss of efficiency, turbulence, etc. I spend an hour with a tiny ball peen hammer and anvil to get it just right and then after welding in place another 45 minutes or more smoothing out the transition with a die grinder.
Top is mine, middle is ATP which is a great DP and bottom the pathetic stock one.
![Auto part Automotive exhaust Pipe]()
Outlet on mine is a bit bigger than the others, one more thing to help flow better, how much it helps, or could even hurt in some ways, I will let the engineers ponder that issue
![Pipe Auto part Automotive exhaust Steel Metal]()
Other side to see the sensor bung below the cat.
![Auto part Automotive exhaust Muffler Pipe Engine]()
Though hard to tell by the pictures buy bend between cat and flex coupling is absolutely spot on correct for the best flow and the area mentioned about that is very well ported.
I have to build an SS heat shield as the 5" diameter cat is a a bit to close to some wiring and plumbing but I knew that was going to happen, I have some rolled SS on hand just for that reason.
Weights:
10 lbs 7.1 oz, stock with heat sheil
05 lbs 8.1 oz
07 lbs, 11.8 oz without heat shield, it will weigh just a few oz so around 8 lbs.
Welding, issue there, ran out of the right gas for SS and regular gas for MIG is pretty hard to work with so just tacking it all together but had to fully weld one section so I could still get to it and port it properly, ended up not pretty but dang solid which is more important and can barely be seen when under the car anyway.
The attention to detail takes many times longer to build a part and it is just not feasible for shops to do this unless a few made for hard core racers with a big race budget, i.e. full sponsorship or just quite wealthy. Gains from it, of course, huge, probably not but I love making the best parts I can and do not consider my normal hourly rate when making my own personal parts, it is to fun!
Again, if you notice the crappy weld, I just have to eat that one, the rest will be far better.
I will finish this up in the AM and the exhaust should go 2-3 times faster so might be all done by tomorrow evening.
Porting every step of the way to ensure the cleanest flow possible, every bend a true bend and not cheated, flared out the bend out of the cat as the hole was bigger than the pipe, it would of been weldable but left a major step causing a loss of efficiency, turbulence, etc. I spend an hour with a tiny ball peen hammer and anvil to get it just right and then after welding in place another 45 minutes or more smoothing out the transition with a die grinder.
Top is mine, middle is ATP which is a great DP and bottom the pathetic stock one.
Outlet on mine is a bit bigger than the others, one more thing to help flow better, how much it helps, or could even hurt in some ways, I will let the engineers ponder that issue
Other side to see the sensor bung below the cat.
Though hard to tell by the pictures buy bend between cat and flex coupling is absolutely spot on correct for the best flow and the area mentioned about that is very well ported.
I have to build an SS heat shield as the 5" diameter cat is a a bit to close to some wiring and plumbing but I knew that was going to happen, I have some rolled SS on hand just for that reason.
Weights:
10 lbs 7.1 oz, stock with heat sheil
05 lbs 8.1 oz
07 lbs, 11.8 oz without heat shield, it will weigh just a few oz so around 8 lbs.
Welding, issue there, ran out of the right gas for SS and regular gas for MIG is pretty hard to work with so just tacking it all together but had to fully weld one section so I could still get to it and port it properly, ended up not pretty but dang solid which is more important and can barely be seen when under the car anyway.
The attention to detail takes many times longer to build a part and it is just not feasible for shops to do this unless a few made for hard core racers with a big race budget, i.e. full sponsorship or just quite wealthy. Gains from it, of course, huge, probably not but I love making the best parts I can and do not consider my normal hourly rate when making my own personal parts, it is to fun!
Again, if you notice the crappy weld, I just have to eat that one, the rest will be far better.
I will finish this up in the AM and the exhaust should go 2-3 times faster so might be all done by tomorrow evening.
Thanks
The finer details make less gains but the more you do, whole car approach, the end results can be considerable. I have built home audio speakers that sounded many times better than off the shelf units and I used the same drivers, same crossover slopes, etc.....car audio, I have built a $20k in parts system that was mind blowing(beat a world champion shop owner and got a 7 page mag article from it) , something you can only hear to fully understand then pulled it out and put in a $2k system that still was amazing because the install was done right, deadening, driver alignment, enough tuning to dial it all in.....building a car is the same thing, fine tune every aspect of it and you get a much finer car with capabilities far beyond what most consider possible.
I intend to invest the time into this car to take it to as high a level of competence as I can but that is not going to cost a bundle while doing so, no $8500 custom built 3-way Ohlins coilovers like I had built for my M3 track car project, no $1800 custom wing element, no $1200 tubular control arms, no $800 shifter, no $1000 pedals, no $800 steering column.......I will use all it has stock that I can and do the simplest effective mods to great results
The finer details make less gains but the more you do, whole car approach, the end results can be considerable. I have built home audio speakers that sounded many times better than off the shelf units and I used the same drivers, same crossover slopes, etc.....car audio, I have built a $20k in parts system that was mind blowing(beat a world champion shop owner and got a 7 page mag article from it) , something you can only hear to fully understand then pulled it out and put in a $2k system that still was amazing because the install was done right, deadening, driver alignment, enough tuning to dial it all in.....building a car is the same thing, fine tune every aspect of it and you get a much finer car with capabilities far beyond what most consider possible.
I intend to invest the time into this car to take it to as high a level of competence as I can but that is not going to cost a bundle while doing so, no $8500 custom built 3-way Ohlins coilovers like I had built for my M3 track car project, no $1800 custom wing element, no $1200 tubular control arms, no $800 shifter, no $1000 pedals, no $800 steering column.......I will use all it has stock that I can and do the simplest effective mods to great results
Lesson learned today, not even welding supply stores give correct advice at times, wrong wire, wrong gas, pain in the as........I have welded SS before just fine but this was not going well, to hot, to fast, none of the normal settings were working....just talked to a buddy, master welder, aircraft certified, he was quite shocked at what I was sold and told would work....totally wrong.
Since I do not want to spend $350 on gas and another expensive spool of wire I will have him finish the welding, I will just tack the pieces together so his job is simplified. I would of had him TIG the DP but now he is just going to give it a good going over to make it look better and ensure nothing is sup par for strength, leaks, etc, which I do not thing he will find.
I hired him to do most of the welding on my last race car, I have done cages before and passed inspection, etc...but it was going to be a very very fast car we built a intense cage for, some parts hard to get to, many elements tied together, I wanted top notch welding on it. I have had him clean up a job another welder did before as well, made it look great but always the most important part is fusion, not becoming brittle and depth. etc...pretty is the last on the list of what welding is about.
I was working on a show car once and had in my hands the most beautifully built sheet metal manifold you could imagine, it broke just putting it on, the welds were barely below the surface, I had to take it to a real welded to get it fixed, not quite as pretty but it did not break. I am not into garage queen, show booth, etc stuff, I just worked on it as a favor and hated doing it but I made it run at least, it hauled butt, shop that built it could not even do that.
Since I do not want to spend $350 on gas and another expensive spool of wire I will have him finish the welding, I will just tack the pieces together so his job is simplified. I would of had him TIG the DP but now he is just going to give it a good going over to make it look better and ensure nothing is sup par for strength, leaks, etc, which I do not thing he will find.
I hired him to do most of the welding on my last race car, I have done cages before and passed inspection, etc...but it was going to be a very very fast car we built a intense cage for, some parts hard to get to, many elements tied together, I wanted top notch welding on it. I have had him clean up a job another welder did before as well, made it look great but always the most important part is fusion, not becoming brittle and depth. etc...pretty is the last on the list of what welding is about.
I was working on a show car once and had in my hands the most beautifully built sheet metal manifold you could imagine, it broke just putting it on, the welds were barely below the surface, I had to take it to a real welded to get it fixed, not quite as pretty but it did not break. I am not into garage queen, show booth, etc stuff, I just worked on it as a favor and hated doing it but I made it run at least, it hauled butt, shop that built it could not even do that.
Your are absolutely right
I have spent considerable time porting factory, aftermarket and my own manifolds, just did not cross my mind on this car for some reason. The car is not coming off the lift for some time yet, easy to get to it now.........
I have also done some very serious porting of internal wastegate turbos and had great improvements....but this stock turbo, good for a kiddie car at best, or a mid size motorcycle.....
I have spent considerable time porting factory, aftermarket and my own manifolds, just did not cross my mind on this car for some reason. The car is not coming off the lift for some time yet, easy to get to it now.........
I have also done some very serious porting of internal wastegate turbos and had great improvements....but this stock turbo, good for a kiddie car at best, or a mid size motorcycle.....
I will take the manifold off as soon as I finish the exhaust, DP is all welded up so now can do the exhaust. My buddy is going to clean up the DP for me for me to make it look better though he did say it was perfectly fine as far as welded well, just not pretty to look at. He will also TIG the exhaust for me and while doing that I will port the manifold
Sorry for any misunderstanding, I have not ordered a turbo yet, just DP and exhaust parts from ATP.
DP is done but some of the welding is not to pretty, bad advice on wire and gas made it a real pain in the arse to weld so going to grind it down and have my aircraft certified welder buddy go over it as he has the right materials to make it look good. Purely cosmetics as he inspected it and said it was welded just fine, just looks like hell in some areas, can't have that can I!
Today I should finish the exhaust design, all tacked together, and then going to have him TIG it up since I do not want to spend $$$$ on another gas bottle and roll of SS wire.
As for the manifold I will have to remind myself to take many pics and post them up, I have posted more pics on this car than probably all the cars I have ever built, I have more time now, when running a busy and growing company 90% by myself and building street and race cars....I just never got around to posting much.
I might port the teeny turbo a bit as well if in the mood at the time, I am hoping to get the manifold off without pulling the turbo off completely though, hope enough movement in the lines, etc....to just get it out of the way but likely not.
I received a good size intercooler yesterday to do some testing with, it will take some TIG welding, plastic trimming and shroud building to seal it well, looks good so far. I am keeping this pretty quiet for now, as in not saying where from, what size, etc........if it works out then I will let it be known.
DP is done but some of the welding is not to pretty, bad advice on wire and gas made it a real pain in the arse to weld so going to grind it down and have my aircraft certified welder buddy go over it as he has the right materials to make it look good. Purely cosmetics as he inspected it and said it was welded just fine, just looks like hell in some areas, can't have that can I!
Today I should finish the exhaust design, all tacked together, and then going to have him TIG it up since I do not want to spend $$$$ on another gas bottle and roll of SS wire.
As for the manifold I will have to remind myself to take many pics and post them up, I have posted more pics on this car than probably all the cars I have ever built, I have more time now, when running a busy and growing company 90% by myself and building street and race cars....I just never got around to posting much.
I might port the teeny turbo a bit as well if in the mood at the time, I am hoping to get the manifold off without pulling the turbo off completely though, hope enough movement in the lines, etc....to just get it out of the way but likely not.
I received a good size intercooler yesterday to do some testing with, it will take some TIG welding, plastic trimming and shroud building to seal it well, looks good so far. I am keeping this pretty quiet for now, as in not saying where from, what size, etc........if it works out then I will let it be known.
I was unable to find a file I had on choosing core sizes and could not recall just how length, thickness, height, etc effects it all, longer being better than thicker, thicker better, tall probably only if just have to have more surface area........this one is 3" thick.
Since planning on a bigger turbo and also long track sessions on hot days I wanted a good size core but not a really tall one blocking the radiator.
I will keep and eye on oil temps as well, if to hot I have a Mocal plate with stat I can add in a cooler with.
Also I can open up some of the filled in parts of the grill as well as replacing the channel in front of the radiator with pipe to better air into the radiator.
Since planning on a bigger turbo and also long track sessions on hot days I wanted a good size core but not a really tall one blocking the radiator.
I will keep and eye on oil temps as well, if to hot I have a Mocal plate with stat I can add in a cooler with.
Also I can open up some of the filled in parts of the grill as well as replacing the channel in front of the radiator with pipe to better air into the radiator.
They have a water to oil cooler already so it might be all we need but I do not think anybody has tracked it with the power the ATP will make in hot weather yet so time will tell, I am just making sure to have the parts on hand for a quick install if needed.
I do realize it will help but long stints on a road course, full throttle, full brakes, over and over again and far more time on the throttle can build a great deal of heat soak, I have had to deal with it on a couple of builds, why I would only go NA for a full race car, far easier. I am just covering the bases to ensure maximum fun as will be towing all over and not a ton of tools or spares due to weight constraints, plenty of room but weight limited.
Man, Ford really shoved that OEM cat as close to the turbine as they could. Probably lights off pretty quick though.DP is nearly done, spending many hours getting it aligned just how I want it for the following exhaust to aim so I can eliminate as many bends and lessen the ones it has to have.
Porting every step of the way to ensure the cleanest flow possible, every bend a true bend and not cheated, flared out the bend out of the cat as the hole was bigger than the pipe, it would of been weldable but left a major step causing a loss of efficiency, turbulence, etc. I spend an hour with a tiny ball peen hammer and anvil to get it just right and then after welding in place another 45 minutes or more smoothing out the transition with a die grinder.
Top is mine, middle is ATP which is a great DP and bottom the pathetic stock one.
View attachment 2195
Outlet on mine is a bit bigger than the others, one more thing to help flow better, how much it helps, or could even hurt in some ways, I will let the engineers ponder that issue
View attachment 2196
Other side to see the sensor bung below the cat.
View attachment 2197
Also, any plans for a ceramic coating? Swaintech has a pretty good reputation..;.
I have a bunch of gauges, considering putting some in.
I will have an AP by the time I track the car, I have not looked into what it can show me while driving, perhaps a temp warning, that would be nice to have.
I had not though of a coating but might be a good idea, I have some thing SS I was going to make a nice heat shield out of but a coating might be better, if they can do it with a cat welded in.
I took a break today from cutting and welding exhaust and pulled the nose off, modifying a bit for more air to the radiator and fitting in a bigger intercooler right now
I am going to see if I can get the transaxle out without a complete pull so I can mic it and send in the specs, PG might have a unit on the shelf that will work, hope so, then I do not have to ship the diff back and forth, I could have it back together in a few days at the most.
I will have an AP by the time I track the car, I have not looked into what it can show me while driving, perhaps a temp warning, that would be nice to have.
I had not though of a coating but might be a good idea, I have some thing SS I was going to make a nice heat shield out of but a coating might be better, if they can do it with a cat welded in.
I took a break today from cutting and welding exhaust and pulled the nose off, modifying a bit for more air to the radiator and fitting in a bigger intercooler right now
I am going to see if I can get the transaxle out without a complete pull so I can mic it and send in the specs, PG might have a unit on the shelf that will work, hope so, then I do not have to ship the diff back and forth, I could have it back together in a few days at the most.
I have had my share of hot engines, running laps in 105 with the heater on full blast was not much fun, lost some weight though and finished the sessions.
I have also got a bit to hot and had major work to do, I am very careful now.
I am going to do some ducting, seal things better than stock, look at opening things up to let more air out.....if I can.
I have also got a bit to hot and had major work to do, I am very careful now.
I am going to do some ducting, seal things better than stock, look at opening things up to let more air out.....if I can.
After this car, finish up the custom rear seat, rear leather and audio in the dually, a few things on the trailer, a ton of stuff to go through, sort, stow, sell....the house is going up for sale during all this, I will not have a shop either for some time to come as going full time RV so building this car right the first time.
I started my big IC install today
There is a vertical brace to the left, hard to see in that picture, plastic, I made some good holes in between the ribs to allow more air flow.
There is also a 2: wide or so horizontal bar that blocks a lot of air to the radiator and causes much turbulence, the crash sensors are mounted to it. I was going to cut it out and make a tubulr one but reconsidered that it might effect how the air bags work, etc...so I just made nine 1" holes in it instead, opened it up quite a bit.
I could also cut a big hole, or 2 or 3, into the bumper beam and weld in a filler to keep it strong and then open up some of the blocked off honey comb in the lower part of the upper grill. I will probably have to do this if I ran an oil cooler.
Building my own intake now as well and want to use the snorkel on the stock setup but may make the opening drop down just behind the open part of the grill so much more air flows in and do a bottom port as well to a duct below the car, I will build some sort of sealed box for the filter to keep all engine heat out and then wrap it and the piping in some manner, probably not gold foil though
There is a vertical brace to the left, hard to see in that picture, plastic, I made some good holes in between the ribs to allow more air flow.
There is also a 2: wide or so horizontal bar that blocks a lot of air to the radiator and causes much turbulence, the crash sensors are mounted to it. I was going to cut it out and make a tubulr one but reconsidered that it might effect how the air bags work, etc...so I just made nine 1" holes in it instead, opened it up quite a bit.
I could also cut a big hole, or 2 or 3, into the bumper beam and weld in a filler to keep it strong and then open up some of the blocked off honey comb in the lower part of the upper grill. I will probably have to do this if I ran an oil cooler.
Building my own intake now as well and want to use the snorkel on the stock setup but may make the opening drop down just behind the open part of the grill so much more air flows in and do a bottom port as well to a duct below the car, I will build some sort of sealed box for the filter to keep all engine heat out and then wrap it and the piping in some manner, probably not gold foil though
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